Sermon Illustrations for Proper 22 | Ordinary Time 27 (2015)
Illustration
Object:
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
Is there anything that could happen to you that would cause you to turn from the Lord? It’s a tough question. The answer we all hope we’d give is “Of course not.” But that’s easy to say, especially when our lives are basically good. The conversation and contest that God has with Satan in the book of Job is hard to understand. Why does God engage in it? Why does he allow Satan in his presence at all? Clearly, we don’t know. God does as God does. That’s the point of the book, though, isn’t it? No matter what happens, Job learns that God does as he does. Man’s response? Respect and trust him.
If we receive from God what is good, won’t we be willing to accept evil? Job’s retort to his wife’s admonition to curse God is strong, but also challenging. We like to envision God as a giant dispenser of all that is wonderful. Do you remember the Pez candy dispensers? Those were amazing! You could get all kinds of them, different people, animals, and all sorts of things. You’d pull the head back and out would come candy. It was a simple pleasure for a simple time. In many ways, that’s the image some have of God. He just dispenses the treats, one after the other. Job’s statement reminds us that God allows evil, at least for a time and under some parameters -- but nonetheless evil. If we are willing to trust him when all is good, will we trust him even when it isn’t?
Bill T.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
I have a hard time with the book of Job. Somehow God giving Job over to Satan so an experiment about faithfulness can be completed seems antithetical to the God I know. Yet there is a beauty in the certainty God has that Job is and will remain righteous and faithful. Even in the face of criticism from his wife, Job does not lose his trust in God.
Of course, we all want to blame God for the difficulties and challenges in our lives. And we like to take all the credit for our blessings and successes. Job asks his wife a relevant question: “Shall we receive the good at the hand of God, and not receive the bad?” And while I don’t believe that God sets the bad upon us, being faithful in instances of good and ease, and in difficulty, opportunity, and challenge, is a righteous and trusting response. Saint Ignatius was quoted as having said, “I extend my hands, and whether they are filled or empty I praise God.” Therein is the challenge for us and the wisdom of Job. Job remains faithful... something to consider the next time a challenge weakens us.
Bonnie B.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
Roy Reed was born in Arkansas, and was a journalist in Little Rock for the Arkansas Gazette. As he worked with a reporter with the New York Times, it became apparent that Reed needed a larger byline -- so the Times hired him and immediately sent him back south to cover the civil rights movement. During those turbulent years, his articles were often front-page news as he reported on the violence that whites in authority inflicted upon black protesters. Reporting on “Bloody Sunday” -- the march from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama, halted by a violent confrontation on Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge -- Reed gave readers an accurate word picture of hate. He wrote that the police were like “a flying wedge as they moved. The wedge moved with such force that it seemed almost to pass over the waiting column instead of through it.” He reported on how white civilians gathered along the side of the road and cheered. Describing the spectators, Reed wrote: “I hope never again to see such hatred in the eyes of men, women, and, yes, children.”
Application: As Satan came upon Job, he experienced hatred.
Ron L.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
Like Job, sometimes we feel all alone. In addition to all her concern for and work on behalf of the poor, Mother Teresa felt a burden for the lonely. Late in her life she observed, “The most terrible poverty is loneliness, and the feeling of being unloved.” An anonymous quotation powerfully captures the sadness of being alone in life: “By ourselves we can enjoy life, but to really appreciate life we must find companionship.” The faithful, even Job found, have God to give such companionship. Hindi poet Nishan Panwar powerfully portrays these dynamics: “Walking with God is the best adventure... and having God as companion is the best source of happiness.” Victorian era English poet Elizabeth Barrett Browning reminds us what solace we have with God: “No man can be called friendless who has God...”
Mark E.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
No more prophets like Gautama Buddha or Muhammad or Joseph Smith, etc. -- now we have the Son who speaks to us through scripture, through God’s disciple and apostle (the pastor), and through his Holy Spirit. There is nothing higher.
But we still turn to the Old Testament prophets to guide us to the Son who was predicted. He fulfills the prophecies -- he does not wipe them out or cancel them. It all fits together, but it can take a great deal of unsuccessful searching unless you have help!
It is worth noting that God comes to us in many diverse ways, which are all genuine but different: like in dreams or visions or through his Word. Our parents may speak to us in many ways also: “Get ready to go now”; “Don’t wear that shirt” (they may point to the closet where there are more shirts); “We may be gone an hour or maybe two, so bring along something to play with.” It is all the same message but with different parts, knowing that they are in charge and have the last word. Jesus also has the last word, so keep listening. He may still be speaking to you in various ways. His message is the most important and must be obeyed willingly -- not grumpily.
When we obey him, we will be his brothers (and sisters). He will put all things under our feet. The part we may not like is the possibility of suffering -- as he suffered! His suffering is all we need for our salvation, but if we do suffer it is to show him that we trust and love and obey him regardless of what happens to us down here.
I have had “inspirations” from our Lord. One of them was when I glanced down at a Bible on my living room table and realized that he was talking to me through it.
When I had children, I often found that I was using the same words to them that my folks used on me. We hope God’s word will also be so planted in us that we will find ourselves quoting him. Check your Bible to see if they were quoting HIM. Make sure you use the same source!
Bob O.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
When Arkansas native Roy Reed arrived in New York City for his new position as a reporter with the New York Times, he was disoriented and disillusioned. He came from a small city, and was now in one of the largest metropolitan cities in the world. He had moved from a small city newspaper to an international paper. That first day Reed went into the men’s room and saw that the lower part of the stall was just high enough off the floor for a very thin man to crawl under. He then noticed this inscription at the bottom of the door: “Beware of Limbo Dancers.” That short saying reassured him, as he recounts: “This was a style of wit that I had never before encountered. I suddenly knew that I was a stranger in town -- not unwelcome, just a stranger” (Roy Reed, Beware of Limbo Dancers: A Correspondent’s Adventures with the New York Times [University of Arkansas Press, 2012]).
Application: Hebrews speaks that we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We may at times feel like we are strangers, but we are always welcomed.
Ron L.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
The letter opens with the assumption that the living God exists. The first word is “God.” He is alive and real.
When Christians speak of God, they refer to the one true God, Who is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. God has spoken and we are to listen. There are a number of human responses to a study of the concept of God.
The atheist says there is no God.
The agnostic says he can’t tell if there is a God.
The materialist boasts that he doesn’t need God.
The pagan sometimes argues that everything is god.
The Christian answers that he can’t get along without God.
(Harold S. Martin, Hebrews: Brethren New Testament Commentary,pp. 19-20)
Frank R.
Mark 10:2-16
The church, in its various forms and denominations, has debated divorce for centuries. Jesus is clear that marriage is a sacred covenant, but let’s think about this passage in its historical context. When a man divorced a woman in first-century Palestine, he kept everything: all the property, wealth, and even the children. The divorced woman was forced to either return to her family, enter servanthood (slavery) in another house, beg on the street, or become a prostitute. And we are not speaking about divorce for a reasonable cause, but divorce for any reason the husband determined. Pretty hard-hearted, pretty harsh, and not fulfilling the covenant of love for the least among us.
Paired with the comments about divorce is the admonition to let the children approach Jesus. Jesus reaches out to the lost and least, advocates for those with no power -- wives, widows, children, the sick, the possessed, all those who are cast away from society into the margins. Jesus calls them to him and to our attention as well. How hard-hearted are we when we consider the “other,” whoever we define that to be? On this World Communion Sunday, let us remember that all are welcome at Christ’s Table. He lived and died rose to make it so.
Bonnie B.
Mark 10:2-16
When I started in the ministry, I was serving as a part-time student pastor in a deep rural area. I was only there two and a half days a week, but I felt it important to call on as many members as I could, which meant two or three households each week. I started with the widows, as I thought that they would be the loneliest people in the congregation. I set aside an hour for each visit. Little did I understand that the previous pastors set aside half of that time -- or even less.
One of my first calls was on a lady I had liked the first time we talked. She had coffee and homemade cookies waiting for me, and we sat and chatted for about half an hour. I noticed that she was becoming restless, but was highly amused when she ran her hand down between the cushion and the arm of her chair and produced a pack of cigarettes.
“Will you be offended if I have a cigarette?”
“Not at all. It’s your lungs and your house, after all.”
She lit up, sat back, crossed her legs, and said, “I have a question for you.” She went on to tell me that she had been married to a man who regularly beat her. She put up with it for years, but then one night their eldest son, 12 at the time, tried to defend her, and her husband turned on the boy. This she would not put up with. A few days later, while he was at work, she had deadbolt locks installed on the doors, then packed her husband’s clothes and put them on the sidewalk.
When he came home, he of course became enraged and started battering on the doors. She had been to the sheriff’s office the day before seeking help, and they had told her to call if he became violent. She did, and he was told to leave the family alone or go to jail. I told her I thought she was very lucky; many law enforcement men would say this was a private thing between husband and wife. She nodded.
Her husband finally stopped bothering her; she met another man a year later, and he was very good with her boys. “I needed help with them, Pastor. By this time they were 13, 11, and 9, and they were a handful for me.”
“Especially since they had seen their dad beat you up on a regular basis,” I added.
She looked down and nodded. “I expect you’re right. Why should they respect me when he didn’t?” She went on with her story. This new man liked her boys, and they respected him -- and their behavior improved. He asked her to marry him, and she gladly agreed. But her husband heard about this, and soon his pastor was at her door. “He read [today’s story] to me, and told me that adulterers go to hell. I threw him out of the house, but it worried me. It still does.” She looked me in the eye and asked, “Pastor, I needed this man. He was a good husband, a good father, and we were happy to the day he died. But I still wonder; am I going to hell for leaving my first husband and remarrying?”
I sighed. “No, I don’t believe you’re going to hell. Your husband was a violent man who went against what the Bible says about how a man should treat his wife. He broke the covenant of marriage by treating you and your children badly. He’s the one who will come under judgment.”
“But it says I committed adultery.”
“Yes, I know. But Jesus wasn’t talking about women who need to get away from a husband who is abusive. He was talking about people who just got tired of their spouses. You were protecting your children and yourself. God knows what you went through.”
It was an amazing thing to watch her face smooth out, her shoulders relax. She smiled a little. “Are you sure?”
“I would not worship a God who thought it was okay for a man to beat his wife and children because he can’t control his own temper. We ought not to think lightly of divorce, but sometimes there’s no other solution.” I went on to talk about the radical way in which Jesus treated women -- forgiving an adulteress when the men were willing to stone her to death, talking to a Samaritan woman who had been married several times and was living with a man to whom she wasn’t married, raising a widow’s son from death because she needed him to care for her.
She was the first woman I had seen who had lived with guilt and shame because her husband demeaned her, hurt her, and then turned on the children, but she was by no means the only one who had this passage used against her, to trap her into staying in an abusive situation. We need to be compassionate, even as Jesus was.
Sandra H.
Mark 10:2-16
Martin Luther offered some sound advice for living together, suggesting that happy spouses are a little blind to each other (especially to their faults):
Is there anything that could happen to you that would cause you to turn from the Lord? It’s a tough question. The answer we all hope we’d give is “Of course not.” But that’s easy to say, especially when our lives are basically good. The conversation and contest that God has with Satan in the book of Job is hard to understand. Why does God engage in it? Why does he allow Satan in his presence at all? Clearly, we don’t know. God does as God does. That’s the point of the book, though, isn’t it? No matter what happens, Job learns that God does as he does. Man’s response? Respect and trust him.
If we receive from God what is good, won’t we be willing to accept evil? Job’s retort to his wife’s admonition to curse God is strong, but also challenging. We like to envision God as a giant dispenser of all that is wonderful. Do you remember the Pez candy dispensers? Those were amazing! You could get all kinds of them, different people, animals, and all sorts of things. You’d pull the head back and out would come candy. It was a simple pleasure for a simple time. In many ways, that’s the image some have of God. He just dispenses the treats, one after the other. Job’s statement reminds us that God allows evil, at least for a time and under some parameters -- but nonetheless evil. If we are willing to trust him when all is good, will we trust him even when it isn’t?
Bill T.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
I have a hard time with the book of Job. Somehow God giving Job over to Satan so an experiment about faithfulness can be completed seems antithetical to the God I know. Yet there is a beauty in the certainty God has that Job is and will remain righteous and faithful. Even in the face of criticism from his wife, Job does not lose his trust in God.
Of course, we all want to blame God for the difficulties and challenges in our lives. And we like to take all the credit for our blessings and successes. Job asks his wife a relevant question: “Shall we receive the good at the hand of God, and not receive the bad?” And while I don’t believe that God sets the bad upon us, being faithful in instances of good and ease, and in difficulty, opportunity, and challenge, is a righteous and trusting response. Saint Ignatius was quoted as having said, “I extend my hands, and whether they are filled or empty I praise God.” Therein is the challenge for us and the wisdom of Job. Job remains faithful... something to consider the next time a challenge weakens us.
Bonnie B.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
Roy Reed was born in Arkansas, and was a journalist in Little Rock for the Arkansas Gazette. As he worked with a reporter with the New York Times, it became apparent that Reed needed a larger byline -- so the Times hired him and immediately sent him back south to cover the civil rights movement. During those turbulent years, his articles were often front-page news as he reported on the violence that whites in authority inflicted upon black protesters. Reporting on “Bloody Sunday” -- the march from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama, halted by a violent confrontation on Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge -- Reed gave readers an accurate word picture of hate. He wrote that the police were like “a flying wedge as they moved. The wedge moved with such force that it seemed almost to pass over the waiting column instead of through it.” He reported on how white civilians gathered along the side of the road and cheered. Describing the spectators, Reed wrote: “I hope never again to see such hatred in the eyes of men, women, and, yes, children.”
Application: As Satan came upon Job, he experienced hatred.
Ron L.
Job 1:1; 2:1-10
Like Job, sometimes we feel all alone. In addition to all her concern for and work on behalf of the poor, Mother Teresa felt a burden for the lonely. Late in her life she observed, “The most terrible poverty is loneliness, and the feeling of being unloved.” An anonymous quotation powerfully captures the sadness of being alone in life: “By ourselves we can enjoy life, but to really appreciate life we must find companionship.” The faithful, even Job found, have God to give such companionship. Hindi poet Nishan Panwar powerfully portrays these dynamics: “Walking with God is the best adventure... and having God as companion is the best source of happiness.” Victorian era English poet Elizabeth Barrett Browning reminds us what solace we have with God: “No man can be called friendless who has God...”
Mark E.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
No more prophets like Gautama Buddha or Muhammad or Joseph Smith, etc. -- now we have the Son who speaks to us through scripture, through God’s disciple and apostle (the pastor), and through his Holy Spirit. There is nothing higher.
But we still turn to the Old Testament prophets to guide us to the Son who was predicted. He fulfills the prophecies -- he does not wipe them out or cancel them. It all fits together, but it can take a great deal of unsuccessful searching unless you have help!
It is worth noting that God comes to us in many diverse ways, which are all genuine but different: like in dreams or visions or through his Word. Our parents may speak to us in many ways also: “Get ready to go now”; “Don’t wear that shirt” (they may point to the closet where there are more shirts); “We may be gone an hour or maybe two, so bring along something to play with.” It is all the same message but with different parts, knowing that they are in charge and have the last word. Jesus also has the last word, so keep listening. He may still be speaking to you in various ways. His message is the most important and must be obeyed willingly -- not grumpily.
When we obey him, we will be his brothers (and sisters). He will put all things under our feet. The part we may not like is the possibility of suffering -- as he suffered! His suffering is all we need for our salvation, but if we do suffer it is to show him that we trust and love and obey him regardless of what happens to us down here.
I have had “inspirations” from our Lord. One of them was when I glanced down at a Bible on my living room table and realized that he was talking to me through it.
When I had children, I often found that I was using the same words to them that my folks used on me. We hope God’s word will also be so planted in us that we will find ourselves quoting him. Check your Bible to see if they were quoting HIM. Make sure you use the same source!
Bob O.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
When Arkansas native Roy Reed arrived in New York City for his new position as a reporter with the New York Times, he was disoriented and disillusioned. He came from a small city, and was now in one of the largest metropolitan cities in the world. He had moved from a small city newspaper to an international paper. That first day Reed went into the men’s room and saw that the lower part of the stall was just high enough off the floor for a very thin man to crawl under. He then noticed this inscription at the bottom of the door: “Beware of Limbo Dancers.” That short saying reassured him, as he recounts: “This was a style of wit that I had never before encountered. I suddenly knew that I was a stranger in town -- not unwelcome, just a stranger” (Roy Reed, Beware of Limbo Dancers: A Correspondent’s Adventures with the New York Times [University of Arkansas Press, 2012]).
Application: Hebrews speaks that we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We may at times feel like we are strangers, but we are always welcomed.
Ron L.
Hebrews 1:1-4; 2:5-12
The letter opens with the assumption that the living God exists. The first word is “God.” He is alive and real.
When Christians speak of God, they refer to the one true God, Who is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. God has spoken and we are to listen. There are a number of human responses to a study of the concept of God.
The atheist says there is no God.
The agnostic says he can’t tell if there is a God.
The materialist boasts that he doesn’t need God.
The pagan sometimes argues that everything is god.
The Christian answers that he can’t get along without God.
(Harold S. Martin, Hebrews: Brethren New Testament Commentary,pp. 19-20)
Frank R.
Mark 10:2-16
The church, in its various forms and denominations, has debated divorce for centuries. Jesus is clear that marriage is a sacred covenant, but let’s think about this passage in its historical context. When a man divorced a woman in first-century Palestine, he kept everything: all the property, wealth, and even the children. The divorced woman was forced to either return to her family, enter servanthood (slavery) in another house, beg on the street, or become a prostitute. And we are not speaking about divorce for a reasonable cause, but divorce for any reason the husband determined. Pretty hard-hearted, pretty harsh, and not fulfilling the covenant of love for the least among us.
Paired with the comments about divorce is the admonition to let the children approach Jesus. Jesus reaches out to the lost and least, advocates for those with no power -- wives, widows, children, the sick, the possessed, all those who are cast away from society into the margins. Jesus calls them to him and to our attention as well. How hard-hearted are we when we consider the “other,” whoever we define that to be? On this World Communion Sunday, let us remember that all are welcome at Christ’s Table. He lived and died rose to make it so.
Bonnie B.
Mark 10:2-16
When I started in the ministry, I was serving as a part-time student pastor in a deep rural area. I was only there two and a half days a week, but I felt it important to call on as many members as I could, which meant two or three households each week. I started with the widows, as I thought that they would be the loneliest people in the congregation. I set aside an hour for each visit. Little did I understand that the previous pastors set aside half of that time -- or even less.
One of my first calls was on a lady I had liked the first time we talked. She had coffee and homemade cookies waiting for me, and we sat and chatted for about half an hour. I noticed that she was becoming restless, but was highly amused when she ran her hand down between the cushion and the arm of her chair and produced a pack of cigarettes.
“Will you be offended if I have a cigarette?”
“Not at all. It’s your lungs and your house, after all.”
She lit up, sat back, crossed her legs, and said, “I have a question for you.” She went on to tell me that she had been married to a man who regularly beat her. She put up with it for years, but then one night their eldest son, 12 at the time, tried to defend her, and her husband turned on the boy. This she would not put up with. A few days later, while he was at work, she had deadbolt locks installed on the doors, then packed her husband’s clothes and put them on the sidewalk.
When he came home, he of course became enraged and started battering on the doors. She had been to the sheriff’s office the day before seeking help, and they had told her to call if he became violent. She did, and he was told to leave the family alone or go to jail. I told her I thought she was very lucky; many law enforcement men would say this was a private thing between husband and wife. She nodded.
Her husband finally stopped bothering her; she met another man a year later, and he was very good with her boys. “I needed help with them, Pastor. By this time they were 13, 11, and 9, and they were a handful for me.”
“Especially since they had seen their dad beat you up on a regular basis,” I added.
She looked down and nodded. “I expect you’re right. Why should they respect me when he didn’t?” She went on with her story. This new man liked her boys, and they respected him -- and their behavior improved. He asked her to marry him, and she gladly agreed. But her husband heard about this, and soon his pastor was at her door. “He read [today’s story] to me, and told me that adulterers go to hell. I threw him out of the house, but it worried me. It still does.” She looked me in the eye and asked, “Pastor, I needed this man. He was a good husband, a good father, and we were happy to the day he died. But I still wonder; am I going to hell for leaving my first husband and remarrying?”
I sighed. “No, I don’t believe you’re going to hell. Your husband was a violent man who went against what the Bible says about how a man should treat his wife. He broke the covenant of marriage by treating you and your children badly. He’s the one who will come under judgment.”
“But it says I committed adultery.”
“Yes, I know. But Jesus wasn’t talking about women who need to get away from a husband who is abusive. He was talking about people who just got tired of their spouses. You were protecting your children and yourself. God knows what you went through.”
It was an amazing thing to watch her face smooth out, her shoulders relax. She smiled a little. “Are you sure?”
“I would not worship a God who thought it was okay for a man to beat his wife and children because he can’t control his own temper. We ought not to think lightly of divorce, but sometimes there’s no other solution.” I went on to talk about the radical way in which Jesus treated women -- forgiving an adulteress when the men were willing to stone her to death, talking to a Samaritan woman who had been married several times and was living with a man to whom she wasn’t married, raising a widow’s son from death because she needed him to care for her.
She was the first woman I had seen who had lived with guilt and shame because her husband demeaned her, hurt her, and then turned on the children, but she was by no means the only one who had this passage used against her, to trap her into staying in an abusive situation. We need to be compassionate, even as Jesus was.
Sandra H.
Mark 10:2-16
Martin Luther offered some sound advice for living together, suggesting that happy spouses are a little blind to each other (especially to their faults):
It is impossible to keep peace between man and woman in family life if they do not condone and overlook each other’s faults but watch everything to the smallest point. For who does not at times offend? Thus many things must be overlooked; very many things must be ignored that a peaceful relation exist (What Luther Says, p. 905).
As I have said, the best way to prevent divorce and other discord is for everyone to learn patience in putting up with common faults... knowing that we can never have everything just right, the way we would like to have it. Even the condition of your own body can never be any different or better. You have to put up with many kinds of filth and discomfort that it causes you every day.... You make allowances for all this. In fact, this only increases your concern and love for your body.... Why not do the same with the spouse whom God has given you, who is an even greater treasure and whom you have even more reason to love? (Luther’s Works, Vol. 21, p. 98).
It is a bit like Benjamin Franklin once put it: “You can bear your own faults, and not a fault in your wife?” (Writings, p. 1259).
Twentieth-century writer Andre Morris articulated a beautiful image for depicting happy marriages: “A happy marriage is a long conversation that always seems too short.” Centuries earlier Martin Luther said it just as well: “There is no more lovely, friendly, and charming relationship, communion, or company than a good marriage.”
Mark E.
Mark 10:2-16
She was nine years old, and her great-grandmother was turning 95. It was a big celebration. There was to be a fancy dinner with a reception following. To adult ears, that sounded like a fine way to honor someone who had lived so long -- a couple of hours to pay tribute to a person who had meant so much. To nine-year-old ears, it was different. It sounded like a death sentence. It would be torture, for which you had to stay in dress clothes, give up playing with friends, and sit around forever. Clearly, she didn’t want to go. Her mother, though, was not about to have her daughter miss it. She had no choice: “You will be going.” The nine-year-old accepted her fate. “Okay, I’ll go, but you can’t make me have a good time.”
I smile at that story for a couple of reasons. First, I do see humor in it. Second, I wasn’t the one who had to deal with it. I’m sure the nine-year-old had a better time than she thought she would, though sitting for the first half hour or so was a bit painful. In this episode we can see that the girl was really good at finding a loophole: “You can make me go, but you can’t make me have fun.” I think we’re all pretty good at that. We mature a bit, I suppose, in the areas we find them, but we find loopholes nonetheless. Jesus is citing that in this passage. With respect to marriage, in Jesus’ day the Jewish leaders had at least two different schools of thought about what was an “acceptable” divorce. The Pharisees were hoping Jesus might come down in one camp or the other about what was “all right” for divorce. They had already discovered a loophole. They were hoping Jesus would entangle himself in the discussion of which view of that loophole was the right one. Maybe they could trip him up in this debate. Jesus, though, simply went back to how things were supposed to be. God did not intend for loopholes. Just like the mom above, he wants better for his children.
Bill T.
